A Biblical Worldview of Honesty and Integrity

Shawn (00:00): Have you ever noticed that the people and businesses others trust most have something in common? They say what they mean and they do what they say every time, whether anyone is watching or not. Today we’re exploring what God’s word says about honesty and integrity and why these two qualities are the very foundation of biblical financial stewardship. Let’s get some perspective. Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives. I’m Shawn Peters and I’m joined today by Bob Barber. Today we’re continuing our biblical worldview of money and wealth series. On the topic is one that Bob considers foundational to everything else we’ll ever talk about on this show, even though we didn’t do this as number one, but it’s honesty and integrity. These words get used together a lot, but before we get into scripture, I want to make sure we’re all working from the same definitions. Bob, are honesty and integrity the same thing or is there a meaningful diference between them? Bob (01:10): I do believe there’s a difference between them. Honesty is being truthful in speech and action at the moment. You and I talked about this, specific moments in time telling the truth from the moment calls for it. So if somebody asks you something, you’re honest back. Right. Okay. But integrity, think of honesty in the head. Integrity’s at the heart. Integrity is being whole or undivided and that your actions align with your values across all situations, no matter what situation you’re in. And not just when it’s convenient. Shawn (01:52): So how could you be honest without having integrity as an example? Bob (01:58): I think you were coming up with a really good example yesterday, like admitting a mistake where just say that you open your door too hard into somebody’s car and you left a dent. If somebody were to ask you, “Hey, did you do that?” Well, if you’re honest, you’re going to say, “Yeah, I did.” Shawn (02:20): Ah, okay. Bob (02:21): But integrity- Shawn (02:22): But only because you were asked. Bob (02:23): Exactly. Shawn (02:24): That’s honesty, but it isn’t integrity. Okay. Then integrity would be… Bob (02:29): You’re going to go find that person. You’re going to find the car. And you’re going to say, “I didn’t mean to do this. The wind caught it, but I put a dent in your car.” Shawn (02:39): Where you leave a quick little note with your number or something on it. Bob (02:42): I want to make this right. Shawn (02:43): Yeah. Bob (02:43): Got it. Yeah. Does that make sense? Shawn (02:45): Yeah. That makes sense. Bob (02:46): You’ve got to look at these separately, but together because when you have integrity, you have honesty, but honesty might not necessarily mean you have integrity. Shawn (02:58): Got it. Okay. So you can’t have true integrity without being honest, but integrity because integrity requires honesty as its foundation. Bob (03:08): It does. Yeah. Okay. Shawn (03:09): Yeah. Gotcha. Bob (03:09): And this has been said to me for as long as I can remember that integrity is what you are when no one sees you or is looking at you. Shawn (03:20): Yeah. Bob (03:22): It’s what you are when you’re by yourself. Shawn (03:24): It’s very similar to what we, for our four core values for Christian financial advisors, that we have integrity doing the right thing even when no one is looking. Bob (03:32): Yeah. So that’s right. And honesty is fundamentally about loving your neighbor. If you love your neighbor, you’re going to be honest with them and treating others the way that you want to be treated because you want people to be honest with you, right? Shawn (03:47): Makes sense. Bob (03:47): Yeah, exactly. Shawn (03:48): Okay. Well, and that’s exactly where scripture takes us for this next part. Right to the heart of why honesty matters so deeply. Jesus was asked, which commandment is the greatest? His answer covers everything we’re going to talk about today. In Matthew 22:36-40 in the Christian Standard Bible, “‘Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?’ He said to him, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important commandment. The second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.'” Bob (04:28): Yeah. Shawn (04:28): Bob, when you look at honesty and integrity through that lens, through love of God and love of neighbor, how does that reframe the conversation? Bob (04:38): Honesty and integrity shows that you love them. It’s love and action. But to be dishonest with someone is to fail to love them. When we cheat, deceive, or even cut corners financially, we’re putting ourselves first before somebody else, which is the opposite of loving your neighbor. Shawn (04:58): Yeah. When you’re doing that at someone else’s expense, whether that’s an organization or individual people or a group of people. Yeah, I would not say that’s loving your neighbor. Bob (05:09): At Christian Financial Advisors® here, we say that we’re Christian financial advisors. We’re not financial advisors that happen to be Christian. We’re Christian financial planners as well. We’re not financial planners that happen to be Christian, meaning that we integrate Christianity within our walk. Shawn (05:27): Instead, we’re Christians who happen to be financial advisors or who happen to be financial planners. Bob (05:33): Yeah. Right. Yeah. Shawn (05:34): Got it. And our standard for that comes from the Word. Bob (05:38): Well, this next area is going to be, what does God say about honesty? And there’s a lot. He says a lot about it. Shawn (05:45): Well, scripture is very direct about where God stands on honesty, particularly in the marketplace, in business dealings, and how we treat one another financially. Solomon wrote extensively about this in the book of Proverbs. Let’s look at a few of those passages together. Proverbs 11:1, “Dishonest scales are detestable to the Lord, but an accurate weight is his delight.” Proverbs 12:22, “Lying lips are detestable to the Lord, but faithful people are his delight.” And then Proverbs 20:10, “Differing weights and varying measures, both are detestable to the Lord.” Bob, the word detestable- Bob (06:28): Seems to appear a lot, doesn’t it? Yeah. Shawn (06:29): Shows up multiple times in those three passages. What does that tell us about how seriously God takes this? Bob (06:37): God is not neutral on this subject. Shawn (06:41): On dishonesty. Bob (06:42): Yeah, exactly. It’s very strong language and he wants that language that we find it effective. To be dishonest goes against the nature of God. Shawn (06:56): It’s offensive to him. Bob (06:57): Deeply offensive. Exactly. And the Proverbs, when these were written and Solomon was writing these were these were the same back then as it is today. These are business principles and principles that we live by because he was talking about differing scales in the marketplace. Shawn (07:17): Rigging the scales and using dishonest weight. So you’re like, well, you’re paying and it should have been this much gold, but you weigh it to where it makes them pay a little bit more. Or if it’s, hey, someone’s giving you something and you’re supposed to pay them, you make it where it makes it seem like, oh, they didn’t give you as much. So you can get a little bit more coin from them, which today, modern equivalent, financial fraud, hidden fees, misrepresentation, right? Bob (07:45): Right. Those are all good areas that comes across and God’s standard for the marketplace is truly being accurate and being fair with your prices and having total transparency.That’s the same way in the business that we’re in. We want to have transparency where if there’s commissions hidden that are not in there, which we’ve talked about that on our program, they need to be disclosed and they need to be upfront and forthright. Shawn (08:20): One example of that would be whenever we’re showing a report of what was the return or what was the performance that, and this isn’t something like, oh, we’re special and only we’re the ones that do it. It’s a requirement. But when you’re doing that, you need to make sure that you show it always as net of fees, especially if someone is asking for a report like that and they’re comparing to something else or another manager, another option. Bob (08:45): Correct. Shawn (08:45): If you show the gross return and not net of fees versus that to try to make yourself look better, yeah, that’s obviously not being honest. Bob (08:55): In Exodus 20 and the 10 Commandments is very clear, God says, “Do not steal, do not give false testimony.” That’s about lying against your neighbor. Honesty is non-negotiable at the foundational level of God’s law. And we’re going to get into what does this mean about biblical, the biblical worldview of money and wealth. It has a lot to do with it a whole lot. Shawn (09:22): Do you have another scripture you want to share? Bob (09:24): I think you go ahead. Shawn (09:25): Okay. I’ll share it then. Proverbs 19:5, “A false witness will not go unpunished and one who utters lies will not escape. There are consequences. Bob (09:35): Always. Always. And I think we mentioned this later. I remember when we were putting this together, but if you lie once, you got to lie again to cover that lie. Shawn (09:44): Yeah. Bob (09:45): So it’s a vicious cycle. Shawn (09:46): Yeah. And it gets exhausting too. Bob (09:47): Yeah, it does Shawn (09:47): For anyone that’s ever gotten in one of those cycles, it’s like just keeping up with. Wait, what did I say before? Who did I say it to? (09:56): Well, one of the most complete pictures of what a life of integrity looks like is found in Psalm 15. David asked the Lord, “Who can dwell in his presence?” And the answer is essentially a portrait of someone who lives with integrity. Let’s read it together. Psalm 15, “Lord, who can dwell in your tent? Who can live on your holy mountain? The one who lives blamelessly practices righteousness and acknowledges the truth in his heart, who does not slander with his tongue, who does not harm his friend or discredit his neighbor, who despises the one rejected by the Lord but honors those who fear the Lord. Who keeps his word whatever the cost, who does not lend his silver an interest or take a bribe against the innocent. The one who does these things will never be shaken.” Bob, what stands out to you in this Psalm as it relates to our financial lives and the way we do business? Bob (10:53): I could feel that one coming. And this is about keeping your word no matter what the cost. And even if that’s not popular, keep your word because integrity comes under pressure many times and keeping your word can cost you money, it can cost you convenience, but that’s where your character is truly revealed. The real character comes out. Shawn (11:17): Yeah. Well, if anything, I would argue that it’s not just integrity under pressure. But when that happens, that even if there is a cost of keeping your word, well, if you don’t then keep your word at that time, then that shows you don’t have integrity in the first place. Integrity by its very nature, I would say part of that is the fact that even when under pressure that you are still honest and you do the right thing. Bob (11:44): But yet in the scripture passage, it says that you will not be shaken when the tough times come because you’re standing on the rock, you’re standing on the foundation of scriptural principles and what God stands for, which is integrity. So you know that you can stand on that when you do the right thing in all situations, whether it’s seen or unseen. Shawn (12:11): Yeah. And we have Proverbs 10: 9, “The one who lives with integrity lives securely, but whoever perverts his ways will be found out.” The contrast is we have integrity which equals security versus deception and eventual exposure. Bob (12:28): Yeah. In my 40 years in business… Shawn (12:32): Not sure I said that right, so integrity equal security. Bob (12:36): So true. Yeah. Dishonesty always surfaces and I don’t like to go down that road because I mean, I’m not perfect, Shawn. And there have been times that maybe I knew I was going to be put on the spot and I was like, “Oh.” But if I did that, it just squinched the Holy Spirit. And I was like, “Okay, Lord, wait a second. I need to get this right.” Even it’s just the smallest, smallest thing. And this is where we’re going to go into our next area that’s so important is the benefits. There are huge benefits to honesty and integrity. And Shawn, I’ve noticed that these benefits of it in wealth management that so many of our clientele that love the Lord, the benefits of honesty and integrity have created wealth. And it’s not that that’s the reason you do it, you do it because we have a holy God, but there are benefits that come from it. Shawn (13:40): Yeah. So let’s talk about what living with honesty and integrity actually produces, the real tangible benefits the scripture promises. There’s a key passage. I love what you were going with. Bob (13:52): It’s one of my favorite passages, don’t you? Shawn (13:54): Yeah. There’s a key passage from Jesus that ties this directly to how God handles financial stewardship. So this is Luke 16:10-11, “Whoever’s faithful in very little is also faithful in much and whoever is unrighteous in very little is also unrighteous in much. So if you have not been faithful with the unrighteous money, who will trust you with what is genuine?” So Bob, in your experience both in scripture and in decades of working with clients, what are the real benefits of living this way? Bob (14:22): Well, credibility, trust of others. And God’s telling us that. He’s saying, “If you’ve been faithful with a little, then I can give you more.” It’s just like as a parent, if we give our child a small amount and they just blow it, we’re not as likely to give them, but if we give them a small amount and they do well with it, then we can give them more and they do well with that. We can give them more and they do well with that. And along with this comes protection You’re not living with the weight of covering up anything because you’ve been faithful with that little bit. So you don’t have fear. You’re not walking around in a spirit of fear. Shawn (15:01): It’s security and protection because there’s not, like you said, there’s not this fear of something being found out. Because, well, there’s not anything to find out because you’re not hiding anything. Bob (15:09): Yeah. Right. Correct. And there’s an inner peace that comes along with this from Colossians 3:9-10. You’re my scripture guy. Shawn (15:18): Sure thing. Bob (15:18): I mean, I read the scripture by the way. I just like, you do a good job at reading it. Shawn (15:23): We don’t like putting you on the spot to have to read it. Bob (15:25): Yeah. Shawn (15:26): So, “Do not lie to one another since you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge and the image of its creator. When we live as the new self in Christ, we walk in peace and not guilt.” Bob (15:41): Yeah, that’s right. We change in that new self. And like I said, honesty goes from our head to our heart. Honesty, integrity. Shawn (15:51): So what else are some benefits? Bob (15:55): Well, strong, healthy relationships because you’re not … Dishonesty, lack of integrity destroys relationships without a doubt. Because like you say, you get into this path of lying, you don’t trust one another and it’s really the foundation for all good relationships, personal relationships, even professional, very much professional relationships. Shawn (16:15): Well, yeah. I mean, who wants to do business with someone that has been found out to be dishonest with you and lack integrity, you’re like, “Well, why would I want to trust them with my business?” Bob (16:26): And the benefit of it is a good reputation. And Proverbs points this out in Proverbs 22:1, “Tell us a good name is worth more than great riches.” You also are better at making decisions. Integrity is like a moral compass and we want to be true north with that compass. You don’t want to have to hide in, hide something in and factor that in. Stay true north, which is to God. Shawn (16:58): Well, you’re better decision making, one, because you don’t have to spend the time and mental effort on the figuring out how to hide what you’ve done. You can actually just focus on, “Hey, what’s the right decision?” So anything else- Bob (17:10): What a legacy. Yeah. Right. I remember being so involved in Promise Keepers, they said, “You can live a life 99 years that’s a life of integrity, and then you can blow it in the very end.” This is a marathon and a life of integrity that will outlast you over time. As you go look at someone that you knew, you stand in front of their grave and you knew this was a person of integrity that always did what they said and I knew they were a person of integrity on and off the field. Shawn (17:47): Yeah. Something that it really- Bob (17:49): Football days on and off the field. Shawn (17:51): Your good name means something to those come after you. Bob (17:54): Exactly. Shawn (17:54): And it outlasts you. All right. Well, Bob, we talked about benefits. So what about, we’re going to go into consequences. Bob (18:01): There’s some pretty tough consequences. Shawn (18:02): Oh yeah. Bob (18:04): Yeah. Shawn (18:04): I got a few scriptures and we’ll get into it with you, but scripture is equally direct about what happens when we go the other direction when dishonesty and a lack of integrity take root. Solomon gives us some vivid pictures on where that road leads. We’re starting with Proverbs 19:5, “A false witness will not go unpunished and one who utters lies will not escape.” Proverbs 13:1, “Wealth obtained by fraud will dwindle, but whoever earns it through labor will multiply it. ” Laborer also let you know, little by little, I think some other common translation. Bob (18:36): Yes. Shawn (18:36): Same idea, you’re not doing it through fraud. Proverbs 20:17, “Food gained by fraud is sweet to a person, but afterward his mouth is full of gravel.” And finally, Proverbs 21:6, “Making a fortune through a lying tongue is a vanishing mist, a pursuit of death.” Bob (18:54): A mouth full of gravel. Shawn (18:55): Yeah. It’s a good word picture. So Bob, what do you want people to really understand about where dishonesty ultimately leads both in our everyday lives and in our financial lives? Bob (19:06): In everyday lives, it just leads to a life of destruction and chaos and stress and lack of sleep, health, health problems. Dishonesty just goes down a path that’s a slippery slope and you get deeper and deeper in that path. You could end up from the legal system putting you in jail, because they’re not going to put up with it. Maybe they will for a while, but not very long and you may not see those consequences immediately, but they’re going to come about eventually. One lie always requires another, so that puts you on a path. Dishonest wealth, as Proverbs 13:11 said, doesn’t last. Dishonest money, my NIV version, dwindles away, but he gathers little by little, makes it grow. And I think it’s interesting in this one passage that you’ve got, what does it mean by dishonest money? And to me, in my personal walk, dishonesty is gambling because it says it’s gathering little by little makes it grow, which is slow wealth versus quick wealth. So I looked at that and thought about that this morning when I was thinking about this. Shawn (20:21): All right. Well, everything we’ve talked about today connects to something very practical, how we can earn money, how we manage it and how we talk about it. Luke 16:10 gives us the standard, faithful with little, faithful with much. So let’s bring this home. What does living out honesty, integrity actually look like day to day in our financial lives? Bob (20:39): Well, the last one I just mentioned starts how you make money. Is it honestly earned or is it by gambling? How are you representing yourself if you sell product, how you’re representing your product, are you truthful in it? It really extends to how you manage money. Integrity, as I was thinking more and more about this this morning, integrity is truly, it goes from honesty to integrity to purity and then holiness and how we manage money here and how anyone wants their money managed, this goes right into the path of biblically responsible investing as an example. Integrity is a part of saying, I’m not going to take God’s resources and intentionally mix them with companies that violate biblical principles. Shawn (21:28): And also, are you honest with your spouse and your family about what’s going on? Are you keeping secrets? Bob (21:34): Taxes. Taxes can be very difficult, especially when you’re in a high, high tax bracket, but integrity doesn’t disappear with taxes. Shawn (21:48): You can dislike the taxes, the amount you’re paying, the percentage you’re paying or what the government’s doing with it, but that doesn’t mean that you have an excuse or a right to not pay whatever legally is owed. Bob (22:00): Correct. And to try to use ways to hide money as an example, taking cash over- I mean, you can take cash. Shawn (22:11): Not hiding money, but reducing your taxable income within what’s legally allowed. I mean, yeah, that’s fine, but don’t hide it. Hiding is different. Bob (22:18): You can be paid in cash, but you need to report it. Shawn (22:21): Correct. Bob (22:22): Don’t say, “I’m getting paid in cash so I don’t have to report it because that’s not honest and that’s not integrity.” Shawn (22:28): So what else? Bob (22:28): Yeah. Well, how you give – tithing and giving and generosity, that is a way of practicing integrity that you love the Lord and that you’re a man of your word. And it’s not just for those appearances that you’re giving. You’re giving because scripture calls for it and giving, like I say, we’ve said over and over releases selfishness. Shawn (22:54): That’s right. Bob (22:55): Yeah. And the earth is God’s and everything in it. Psalms 24:1 says that. “The earth is the Lord and everything in it.” When we handle what belongs to him with honesty and integrity, we honor him as the true owner of it all. Shawn (23:11): And at Christian Financial Advisors®, like we mentioned before, we’re Christians who happen to be financial advisors, not the financial advisor happens to be Christians. So that means integrity is the non-negotiable foundation of how we serve every client every day. So in closing today, I want to leave our viewers, listeners, leave you with a few questions to carry with you this week or whatever it is you happen to tune in. But these come directly from Bob’s own reflection on this topic and I think they’re worth sitting with. Number one is the, are you more likely to give more responsibility to an honest person or to a dishonest person and why? Would you want someone to demonstrate faithfulness with a small amount of money before you trusted them with a large amount? And does God care how we make money and grow wealth? Bob, do you have any final thoughts before we close? Bob (24:02): Yeah. God does care how we make money and grow wealth. He cares a lot and to not say that God doesn’t care means to, you’re just going to throw out scriptural principles behind that. And the biblical worldview of honesty and integrity is, it’s not a suggestion to us. It’s a calling and God calls us to live this way in every area of life including our finances. Shawn (24:29): There’s no neutral ground. Bob (24:30): No. Shawn (24:30): Right. Bob (24:31): Remembers integrity is what you are when no one’s watching. Shawn (24:34): That’s right. Bob (24:34): Yeah. Shawn (24:34): Well, if you’d like to learn more about Christian financial advisors, please visit our website at www.christianfinancialadvisors.com or you can call or text us 830-609-6986 during business hours. Thanks for joining us today, and as always, God bless.