A Biblical Worldview of Counsel and Advice

Bob (00:00): I’ve met some folks in their 20s that have more wisdom than those in their 50s because they’re relying on God’s word. Shawn (00:18): Welcome to Christian Financial Perspectives. I’m Shawn Peters here with Bob Barber. This is the finale of our 12 part series on the biblical worldview of money and wealth. And today we’re tackling something that shapes just about every financial decision you’ll ever make — who you actually take your advice from. Well, Bob, welcome to the finale of the 12 part series. Bob (00:38): Thank you. It’s been a long time in coming. We’ve been talking about this for six months now. And gosh, this is all going to turn into an amazing book that we’re going to put together in the next nine months or so. You and I are going to do that. And I’ve asked Matthew to help a little bit with that. But yeah, this does tie the whole series together, what we’re going to be talking about today about where you get your counsel from. And Shawn, I kind of go back and forth. Should this be the first one? Shawn (01:12): Sure, sure. Bob (01:13): Because you’ve heard last shall be first, first shall be last. And a lot of times at the very end, we know the foundation like we talked about earlier is ownership. But yeah, this is so, so important where we get our counsel from. Shawn (01:30): True. But I do think that the way this ties it all together is important because the previous 11 arguably are covering the foundation, kind of building upon that to all lead to why it’s so important on where you get the advice from. And so it’s like now that you know what you’ve learned, it’s important on where you’re actually getting the advice from. Bob (01:56): Good point, brother. Good point. Maybe that’s why I did the last one. Shawn (02:00): Yeah. Yeah. Well, Bob, scripture is pretty clear that God never designed us to figure life out or money out all on our own. Bob (02:10): It’s the truth. Shawn (02:11): So here’s how Solomon put it. In Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 and verse 12, “Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up. Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.” Feel free to check out verse 11. Bob (02:37): Exactly. Yeah. Shawn (02:37): We only left it out because it’s talking about sleeping in the bed together. Bob (02:41): Sleeping in the same bed together. Shawn (02:42): I get where it’s coming from, but it just didn’t feel like it worked very well. Bob (02:46): Just leave that scripture up here for a minute. When you really look at this, you think about the three strands. And we know that there’s the trinity, right? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And the three strands would be that third strand really makes the rope strong. And the third strand has to be God. It’s man and man and then it’s God. Shawn (03:11): Just like the triangle analogy thing of when you’re getting married, that it’s not that you and your spouse, for our wives, but it’s not that the two spouses are trying to get closer to each other. It’s more of a focus on trying to get closer to God, which inevitably also brings you closer together, just like with the three strands. Bob (03:32): God’s in the center and you’re coming towards God, you’re getting closer to each other automatically. God made us, you look at the scripture, he’s talking about it. He made us for community. Shawn (03:42): That’s ight. Bob (03:44): We are not to do things in isolation as the world would have you think that you should. And we need each other as brothers and sisters in Christ for accountability, protection, counsel, all those things. I mean, I like to get counsel from somebody that’s got some gray hair like me or more. Shawn (04:05): Sure. Bob (04:06): Many times what causes that gray hair, by the way, is mistakes. And by learning from your mistakes, you gain wisdom and the ultimate counsel is God’s word. And I’ve met some folks in their 20s that have more wisdom than those in their 50s because they’re relying on God’s word. And that’s so important. Shawn (04:32): Yeah. It’s true. And the same idea on the community and helping each other and seeking out others. Proverbs 27:17, “Iron sharpening iron.” And Jesus when he’s talking in Matthew 18:19-20, just that community and helping each other. Bob (04:52): The iron sharpens iron was so big when I was involved in Promise Keepers years ago. And yes, that we need one another. We’re not to do things in isolation, which really gets to today’s point. Shawn (05:04): Yeah. So where do you get your advice would be the first point. That’s really the heart of it. It’s the question I’d want every listener or viewer, depending on the medium that they’re using, where are you actually getting your financial advice right now? Is it a friend, a family member, social media, YouTube, financial news, or no one at all? Bob (05:28): Well, I’m getting mine on a pickleball court. Shawn (05:30): That’s another place. Yeah, sure. I guess it depends on who on the pickleball court. Bob (05:36): Really, Shawn. To be serious about that, I think people do get some of their financial advice from somebody that’s just not qualified. And they ask them – Shawn (05:47): Just talking to a friend you’re playing some sort of sport with. Bob (05:51): Right. Golf course. Golf course is known for stock tips. Shawn (05:55): So Bob, when someone wants to do this the right way then, where should they start? If the golf course is not the right place necessarily. Bob (06:04): Well, we want to start with wise biblical counsel. And we’ve got some great… There’s a great scripture that speaks into that. The Bible though has thousands of scriptures on stewardship and how to handle money from a biblical perspective. And Shawn, I’ve seen in my 40 years of being in investing and being in business, I’ve seen a lot of good Christian brothers and sisters in Christ that follow biblical guidelines. And the offshoot of that is they’re successful with what they’re doing. But I’ve also seen those that have not followed biblical guidelines and they end up in turmoil and they end up making a lot more mistakes than those that follow the biblical guidelines. God’s laid it out right there how we’re to handle our finances. Most people don’t realize it, but there’s over 2,000 scriptures that have to do with stewardship. And you and I talk about this and many biblical scholars will say that Jesus spoke on stewardship more than heaven and hell combined. So stewardship and how we handle what God gives us is throughout scripture. And we need to rely on that scripture and look for somebody that if they’re going to give us counsel, are they using that scripture as their foundation? Shawn (07:46): Right. I think Matthew actually was helping us a little bit with the content for today. And he mentioned something about David in 1 Samuel 16:7. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Bob (08:00): Matthew’s one of the advisors with Christian Financial Advisors®. We were talking – Shawn (08:03): Yeah, we weren’t making reference to the – Bob (08:04): Not Matthew in the Bible. Shawn (08:05): Matthew in the Bible. This is Matthew who works for us. Bob (08:08): Yeah, exactly. And he said, start with the heart when you’re looking for counsel first. And that David did that in 1 Samuel 16:17, he looked past the outward stuff and you look to the heart of the person. And we need to wait – Shawn (08:25): Are you referring to when God chose David, right? That God was looking past – Bob (08:29): He was looking at his heart. You know the old saying, David was a man after God’s own heart. And so when we look for financial counsel as a Christian, we need to look at that person who we’re getting advice from and look at their heart. Shawn (08:48): That’s true. Bob (08:49): Do they love the Lord? And are they a person of integrity? And we’re going to go through some of these things because I’m telling you, scripture just clearly lays it out. Shawn (08:58): Scripture is very blunt about why counsel matters. Proverbs 15:22, “Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed.” Bob (09:07): Now, whose favorite verse is that? Shawn (09:09): I’m pretty sure that’s yours. Bob (09:11): Yeah. Shawn (09:13): If we had the word cloud thing of the larger the word, the more often it’s repeated. I think Proverbs 15:22 would definitely be up there on how often we use it in our – Bob (09:22): That’s exactly right. Yeah. Shawn (09:24): Say someone’s ready. I’ll be the audience for second. So say I’m ready to go find that wise counsel. What should I actually be looking for in a person or a firm? Bob (09:36): Well, in looking at the person, we’re giving some real good references for what a person should have to get counsel from. In 1 Timothy, the third chapter in 1 Timothy is the qualifications for an elder and a deacon. And there’s like 14 or 15 of these qualifications. And some of these would be. It’s all about character and integrity. Shawn (10:08): There’s two tests and the first one is character from 1 Timothy 3 and Galatians 5. Bob (10:15): That’s where I found the second test. Because Galatians 5 we know is the “Fruits of the Spirit”. So you lay these out, you’re looking at a person that has good self-control. They’re not a lover of money. They’ve got a good reputation in the community. They’re mature in their faith. These are things that we’re looking for in the spirit, man. Shawn (10:38): Got it. So what would the second test be then? Bob (10:42): Well, the second would be competence. Shawn (10:44): Okay. So character and competence. Bob (10:47): And somebody that knows how to take those scriptures and apply them to financial planning and investment management because you can apply. And you know we’ve talked about this over and over. I mean, go back to the biblical worldview of investing that we did. That’s taking scripture and bringing it into investing because there’s a lot that scripture has to say about investing and how we handle money. And financial planning and investing is all throughout there. Another thing that you look for in somebody is their years of experience. Somebody’s gone through the good markets and the bad markets, as well as somebody that knows how to manage their own financial house well. I mean, I don’t want to take advice from somebody that hasn’t done it well themselves. The old saying, the shoemaker son? The shoemaker’s son in the story, the son didn’t have good shoes. (11:45): Well, I want to have good shoes. I want to show that I’m competent and make good decisions by my financial house being in order. And I can say that mine is probably to the nth degree because I look at financial planning daily. Shawn (12:05): Sure. Yeah. Anything else on the competence? Bob (12:08): I think on a competence, another good area to look at strongly is a Certified Kingdom Advisor. A Certified Kingdom Advisor has a lot of things that they have to go through. Shawn (12:21): Well, now that you brought up the Certified Kingdom Advisor, for those who aren’t familiar with it, what makes that designation worth looking for? Bob (12:30): Well, this was started through Kingdom Advisors, from a very well known man named Ron Blue. And Kingdom Advisors is a very large organization that we’re a member of, have been there since nearly the very beginning. And a Certified Kingdom Advisor is somebody that has gone through a lot of qualifications to become one. They have very stringent qualifications. You got to have at least 10 years of financial industry experience or hold a credential such as a CFP. Shawn (13:04): Gotcha. Certified financial planner. Bob (13:07): Right. You got to pass a rigorous exam. I remember going through the exams. And this really tests you for your financial competence as well as your biblical knowledge and how to apply, how to apply that. Shawn (13:23): So that’s the qualifications. And then anything else? Bob (13:27): They have ethical standards to become a Certified Kingdom Advisor. They have a code of ethics that you’ve got to follow this and commit to your client’s best interests and hold ethical standards as the Bible lays them out. Shawn (13:44): Gotcha. So you’ve got the qualifications and the exam to initially get your CKA certificate. And then you’ve got the ethical standards for that ongoing of having to adhere to that if you want to maintain your CKA. Well, what’s the last thing that they require? Bob (14:03): The last thing is that shows involvement in the Christian community. Are you involved in your local church? And you have to get pastoral references to become a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Shawn (14:13): Gotcha. Bob (14:13): So Matthew and I are both Certified Kingdom Advisors. I would invite you to go onto their website, www.kingdomadvisors.com and go to the area that’s Certified Kingdom Advisor and it would lay more of this out. Shawn (14:29): Yeah. I know I’ve been working on the CFP, the Certified Financial Planner aspect of it because there’s a course that once it’s like, okay, I think I might be ready for this. I’ve got the experience, the number of years of experience. And then take the…they have a course where you’re basically studying for to get both the CFP and the CKA kind of at once. So we’re working on that. So hopefully if you’re watching or listening to this in the future that I’ll actually have that CFP and CKA designation next to my name. Bob (15:04): Shawn, you’ve got about 10 years of experience now. Shawn (15:07): Yeah. I’m right at the experience, total experience now. And so that’s something I’m working on. So please pray for me. Bob (15:15): Yeah. Shawn (15:16): All right. Well, before anyone hires an advisor, there’s a whole set of questions worth asking. Bob (15:20): Oh my goodness. I came up with 21 of them. Shawn (15:23): 21 total actually. Yeah. We’ve put the full list on our website as a free download. But Bob, if someone could only ask a handful, which ones matter most? Like five to seven, I guess. Bob (15:35): The first one I would do is I would ask, what is your financial advice based on? If you ask me that, I’m going to say the Bible. Shawn (15:43): The first and foremost. Bob (15:45): These questions might not be the exact order of importance, but these are some very strong questions. Ask them, if you’re looking to hire a financial advisor or change one, how are you paid? Are you paid by a fee, a commission, or both? Is financial planning included in the fee or is that a separate fee? Shawn (16:06): Gotcha. Bob (16:07): I think another good one is to ask, what kind of support staff do you have? Shawn (16:11): Gotcha. Right. Why would that be important? Bob (16:14): There’s so many issues. When you’re handling someone’s finances, there’s a lot of issues that don’t deal necessarily with the financial planning part of it or the investment side of it, but just deal with the service side of it. I want to add money. I want to take money away. I need to change our address. The support team does that. Shawn (16:34): But also you would look at that as, hey, the support team and just the team in general, well, what if your primary advisor that you’re working with is sick or there’s something going on with family or something else? It’s like, are you stuck or do they have a good support team to help you and be able to provide that service that you need, even if the main advisor you normally talk to is not going to be available for you? Bob (16:57): It’s like here, if Matthew’s out on vacation or he’s sick, whatever, I can handle the questions. So can Don. If Don’s out, Matthew or I can handle them. We can step in and you can handle them as well. Shawn (17:11): And I’m kind of in a weird hybrid role of like, I’m not really an advisor. I’m not really a support team, but I can kind of help with both depending on what it is. Okay. What’s another one? Bob (17:20): It’s very, very important too is biblically responsible investing. Remember we covered this as part of the series, the investing in the biblical worldview of that. And ask your advisor, will you make sure my money is not invested in companies that go against biblical values? And most, even if they’re not a Christian advisor, they’re an advisor that happens to be a Christian and go, “Oh yeah, we’re going to do that.” Well, ask them, “How are you going to do that?” Shawn (17:51): Because it’s one thing to say, “Oh yeah, we’ll make sure we do that.” But then if they don’t have a plan or a procedure of how do you make sure that happens? And it’s one of the fund families that is known. And I would argue with the kind of things that many of them do, that they are a Christian organization as a whole. But when it comes to the actual investment choices, if you did a blind, you didn’t know which fund was which, you just looked at the holdings like, well, they look identical. They look identical to a secular fund. Bob (18:21): I’ve seen this over and over and it’s unfortunate, “Oh yeah, we’re investing by biblical standards.” And I just go in and I can see dirt and crummy stuff all over the place. Shawn (18:31): There’s poop in the brownies. Bob (18:34): Yeah, exactly. And then ask them what is their ongoing investment strategy? Is it just buy and hold or do they have a written process, a set of rules? When things get overvalued, are they going to become a little bit more defensive and vice versa? And when things way, way undervalued. It’s time to get more offensive. Shawn (18:53): Got to have a plan. Bob (18:54): Yep. And last question. Well, I mean, there’s 21 of them, but another important one of these 21 is, “How often will you meet with me to review my portfolio and update my plan?” And at least a minimum of once a year. Some people want to meet twice a year. Shawn (19:11): Yes, but it does probably depend a little bit on the complexity of the situation. Bob (19:14): It does. Shawn (19:15): Some people might only need once a year. Bob (19:17): And our financial planning program that we get our clients involved in here is so living and breathing. And you can go in and say, “Well, I want to buy this new car and that’s going to cost $50,000 today. And how’s that going to affect my financial plan?” Shawn (19:31): Yeah. And you don’t have to start from scratch, at least for our clients. Once we put all the important information and connected accounts and things like that, you just need to do a refresh of a few things and then you plug in, well, what is it you’re wanting to look at or change? So now again, that was only 6 of 21, but the full list of 21 is on our website, by the time you’re watching or listening to this. And if you want to take that, you can walk into that first meeting with the advisor or firm ready with some good questions. All right. Well, the last step is going to be pray about it. Bob (20:04): Absolutely. Yeah. Shawn (20:05): That one more step, but this one, it’s easy to skip. I know, Bob, I know we’re guilty of it too, that sometimes – Bob (20:12): Oh, we are. Shawn (20:13): You and I jump into a meeting and we forgot to pray at the beginning of the meeting and we know we should. So thankfully though, the Lord is bigger than time and more powerful than time. So we just pray at the end. But definitely pray.This is an important step. Once you’ve done all this homework, what’s that final move? Bob (20:30): Well, every financial decision for a Christian, that’s a spiritual decision as well. Shawn (20:37): So pray about it. Yeah, sorry. I got a little excited on the — Bob (20:40): Is God giving you a peace about this? And a thing that you’ve got to ask yourself is, are they a true Christian financial advisor? Or are they just an advisor that happens to be a Christian and they don’t integrate biblical principles into how they work? And that’s so important. And don’t let your flesh or a secular viewpoint drive your decision. It should be coming from a spiritual and a biblical worldview seeking the Holy Spirit to give you a peace about that. Shawn (21:21): That’s right. Amen. Well, that brings our 12-part series on “The Biblical Worldview of Money and Wealth” to a close. We’re turning the whole… I know, Bob, you mentioned this a little earlier, but we’re turning the whole series into a book, 12 chapters. There might, I guess, maybe be 13 or 14 if we end up having an intro and a closing – Bob (21:43): There’ll be intro and outro, but it’s – Shawn (21:44): There’ll be at least 12. There’s going to be 12. Bob (21:46): Sure. Shawn (21:46): One on each viewpoint or worldview. And Lord willing, have that out by the end of summer 2027. Bob said about nine months. I don’t know if that’s realistic or not, because this will be my first time being involved writing a book or helping someone write a book. But you can always revisit any of the episodes that you may have missed at www.christianfinancialadvisors.com. Bob (22:08): I appreciate those that have walked through us through this whole series. If you’ve missed any of them, definitely go back. And I trust that God’s going to help you with all of your finances. You’re going to lay it before him, lay it before the cross. God’s the true owner of everything. And I think it’s important that we close. There’s a scripture that a lot of people know the fear of the Lord is where knowledge and wisdom begins. And that’s Proverbs 1:7, so I kind of want to close on that one. Shawn (22:39): If you would like to learn more about Christian Financial Advisors®, or if you’ve got questions about today’s topic, visit us at www.christianfinancialadvisors.com. You can also call or text us at 830-609-6986 during business hours. Bob (22:52): Thank you for joining us and God bless y’all. Shawn (22:55): God bless.